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post #11 of 18 Old 02-20-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
Exactly. You have to make a decision yourself based on doubletalk.

Sounding more and more like Trump to me, how can one stupidly pretend to know the 'truth' when both it and utter falseness ('emergency' and 'I didn't have to do it right now' are diametrically opposed, or you don't understand english) are mixed in the same sentence? We do recognize that as a mark of insanity right?

One does understand the words yes and no and more importantly the vast chasm in between or they don't and what a witless life ensues then.

Forgive me for the politics, I just loathe an idiot..................I'll stop now.
Meh, I like Trump but am a person who can discuss such things in a professional, adult, and non-emotional manner while also recognizing the fact that every politician has said and continues to say stupid things. If referencing the border emergency, please note that Obama stated the following as a senator, "We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.". Of course, this is assuming you lean left. Other than that, I do find it amusing when Trump (or any other president/politician) is brought up with no real relevance. But, I digress and too return to the subject at hand.


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Originally Posted by 2013Versa View Post
I would consider towing a small motorcycle camping trailer like those you see Goldwings pulling. They're light and will be mostly in the slipstream of your Versa so you won't be fighting as much wind resistance. Those shouldn't put much stress on your drivetrain as, for instance, a Coleman popup camper would.
I would assume it is to protect themselves from people who know nothing about towing and proceed to overload the vehicle. It would be hard for Nissan to prove the car was overloaded by simply having a tow hitch attached. Sure, they can see extreme wear in the CVT and possibly motor but was that from a defect or pulling too much weight. Not fair for those who simply want to add a bike rack or some other minimal attachment but in these days, you have to cover all bases and courts have decided that the burden of proof is on the dealership/manufacture when denying warranty claims to customers.
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post #12 of 18 Old 02-21-2019, 05:29 AM
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'I do find it amusing when Trump (or any other president/politician) is brought up with no real relevance.

A perfect example of what I talk about. You think you understand but you really don't, you fail to grasp the magnitude of the problem and what most do. The clumping in with others shows you cannot differentiate factuality whatsoever.

I'll leave you alone, you have problems enough as is.

FWIW I stay firmly in the middle, it is the ends that kill you.
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post #13 of 18 Old 02-21-2019, 05:34 AM
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Factual differentiation.

'It would be hard for Nissan to prove the car was overloaded by simply having a tow hitch attached.'

Not at all. If the hitch is class 2 or higher the warranty is voided on the spot. They are commonly marked.

Facts DO matter.
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Last edited by amc49; 02-21-2019 at 05:38 AM.
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post #14 of 18 Old 03-01-2019, 07:53 PM
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lol Oh boy, politics crack me up and intertwining them to hitches and sealed transmissions is mind blowing - not to mention the inability to control your emotions so much that you have to resort to personal attacks upon myself. But, doesn't bother me one bit as facts and emotions are 100% not related and those that can keep them differentiated and separate are the true purveyors of a neutral outlook.

Anywho, Magnuson-Moss act CLEARLY set precedent that it is the dealer responsibility to show that an aftermarket part caused the damage. The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the manufacture to show that you actually pulled and overloaded the vehicle - the connection between the failure and "act" must be thoroughly shown and proven.

Prime Example, you focus on a class II hitch. Are you implying that you wouldn't be able to pull a wagon of hay with the use of adapters and overload the vehicle with a Class I hitch? A hay wagon has nearly 0 tongue weight. That is the point I was making - Nissan has no way to prove whether it was a bike rack or an overloaded wagon. So it is far easier to stop all liability by issuing such a broad clause in their contract/manual to defer all responsibility.
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-02-2019, 10:14 AM
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'Magnuson-Moss act CLEARLY set precedent that it is the dealer responsibility to show that an aftermarket part caused the damage. The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the manufacture to show that you actually pulled and overloaded the vehicle - the connection between the failure and "act" must be thoroughly shown and proven.'

I would fervently hope that one would recognize that all that means absolutely nothing until you have already paid at least enough to get the company into a court of law. Before that the company can do whatever it wants to and they do.

Tongue weight is meaningless if the hay load is too heavy, any tow is a movement of MASS, that does not change with tongue weight. The tongue weight simply modifies the physics of it but cannot make the mass disappear.
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Last edited by amc49; 03-02-2019 at 10:19 AM.
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post #16 of 18 Old 03-08-2019, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
'Magnuson-Moss act CLEARLY set precedent that it is the dealer responsibility to show that an aftermarket part caused the damage. The ENTIRE burden of proof is on the manufacture to show that you actually pulled and overloaded the vehicle - the connection between the failure and "act" must be thoroughly shown and proven.'

I would fervently hope that one would recognize that all that means absolutely nothing until you have already paid at least enough to get the company into a court of law. Before that the company can do whatever it wants to and they do.

Tongue weight is meaningless if the hay load is too heavy, any tow is a movement of MASS, that does not change with tongue weight. The tongue weight simply modifies the physics of it but cannot make the mass disappear.
And again, you ignore the difference of your comment of a class II hitch and and class I hitch and having 0 relevance to the discussion of a hitch voiding the warranty. Nothing was said regarding court proceedings cost but if it were to end up in court, my comment is still fact and the burden lies on the manufacture. Nissan can deny responsibility but if you hire an attorney that specializes in Lemon Law and the associated legalities such as the Magnusson-Moss act, you can include your court costs in the demands.

Scenario 1:
Single axle trailer attached to non-moving Versa with 50,000lbs. Weight is on the single axle and is transferred through the tongue to the receiver on the Versa causing structural damage, the hitch assembly possibly ripping from the body, shocks going through the mounts, and complete devastation to the rear alignment specs.

Hay wagon attached to non-moving Versa with 50,000lbs. Weight is on both axles of the wagon and there is no weight transferred to the Versa other than the 20 or 30lbs that the actual tongue weighs from the hay wagon. Absolutely no damage is caused to the Versa.

Nissan looks at both Versas and can see one is physically damaged from being overloaded. One has absolutely zero signs of being overloaded.

Scenario 2:
Single axle trailer attached to moving Versa with 50,000lbs. Weight is on the single axle and is transferred through the tongue to the receiver on the Versa causing structural damage, the hitch assembly possibly ripping from the body, shocks going through the mounts, and complete devastation to the rear alignment specs.

Hay wagon attached to moving Versa with 50,000lbs. Weight is on both axles of the wagon and there is no weight transferred to the Versa other than the 20 or 30lbs that the actual tongue weighs from the hay wagon. Nissan moves and begins to pull the hay wagon with 50,000 pounds.

Nissan looks at both Versas and can see one is physically and internally damaged from being overloaded. One may have damage to the engine and transmission but Nissan has no proof as to what the damage came from

Prime example: Look at ANY of the world's truck ratings. Why is there a difference in payload and towing capability? It is FAR easier for a vehicle to tow weight than it is to physically haul and share the weight. Remember the Tundra commercial pulling a spaceship or one of the multiple videos of trucks pulling trains? They can do it but it will destroy the vehicle.

I'll say it again. Nissan would have NO way of knowing a vehicle was overloaded when pulling a hay wagon if all traces of the hitch were removed. If the Versa was pulling a trailer that shared the load with the Versa, there would be obvious structural damage. THAT for the third time is the point that is being made - it isn't always easy to see what the true cause of damage is from so Nissan says, we will just remove ourselves from ALL liability.

Simple.
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post #17 of 18 Old 03-08-2019, 10:35 PM
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Yea, but is it worth going through all the hassle to prove it one way or the other?
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post #18 of 18 Old 03-10-2019, 07:08 AM
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Really.

You DO realize that the ECM will have evidence of the much higher historical TPS/throttle % used there right? It will be way beyond normal use. Converter slip alone will scream towing.

Wipe the ECM and that makes towing even more suspect. And what about the so-called Nissan PERMANENT codes now? You know, the ones that do not disappear at a wipe. There's a reason for that.

Go to court and Nissan will arrange everything they can to make your costs so high you give up, what the lawyers do first. The lawyers that are already on retainer and free since they are already paid for. The court will be relocated and other things to make you add up your costs, you have to win to hope of recovering those.

The car will be taken as evidence if you insist on court and engine and trans taken apart and then easy to show towing. The parts wear abnormally, I could tell one instantly once inside engine even though people denied it. If engine smokes a high likelihood of it if too early for the mileage. A backup 10 minute compression test shows it too. As does a dead rear suspension.

'It is FAR easier for a vehicle to tow weight than it is to physically haul and share the weight.'

You tow because it won't fit inside the car, only the unlearned don't grasp that. If one cannot grasp the engine still sharing the weight that cannot be helped here. It was already explained.

As to the commercials, anybody with any mechanical knowledge knows when a vehicle can and can't pull something, the train and rocket thing is pure fiction, I guarantee trans or chassis damage even so much as trying to move some of those TV loads. The vehicle will NOT even move. Some of us HAVE towed before.

'If the Versa was pulling a trailer that shared the load with the Versa,...'

One either gets this or they don't. You SHARE more load when you tow. You CANNOT avoid it, it is IMPOSSIBLE. If not there would be zero need of any added trailer weight ratings, they would all still be zero. Not so is it? THINK. The ratings are NOT JUST FOR THE TRAILER, they also impact the CAR.
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