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On a twin stat engine the colder stat cannot control temperature at all, because if the hotter one is not open yet the colder being open still will not flow as the other end of the radiator is still shut. You can even remove the colder stat and nothing happens, that is the way the Ford system is setup from the factory. The stat that flows water OUT of the engine is the temp controlling one. Nissan performed a whopping disservice by calling the wrong stat the 'thermostat', or it is more conspiracy to wreck the cars ahead of time to sell more cars. But then I can see that in literally every car part I pick up.

I have an '11 and it has the two stats. I was surprised at it as well and went over the whole system to understand how somebody could be so silly as to design that. Stats are a main long term fail item and having two of them only makes it worse, they change one thinking they did good and the engine immediately overheats again to possibly put an expensive car in the scrapyard. I strive on my stuff to never overheat ever throughout the lifetime of a vehicle, it's a stupid way to lose a viable car.

They may use lower temp stats for the CVT like said, I have done some looking at the fluid deterioration number and it seems to include what would have before been considered to be normal temps but maybe no longer. I will flat say that 180 degree stats allow more engine pollution to get by than 195 ones do and it makes me wonder why they have dropped back to the 180's, it could be another effort to wear the engines out slightly faster as they will at the lower temps, again, watch the amount of sludge buildup.

Modern cars now last commonly up to 300K miles and you can't sell as many cars like that. Why the OEMs have gone to clandestine methods of shortening engine life in various ways that nobody ever sees. I believe low-vis 'mileage' oils are another. Super high tech engines that are small in displacement and big in power to go pop way early (Nissan VC variable compression or Ford Ecoboost 1.0) are another way to retire cars way early. Nissan overdid it with CVT, they designed way too short and look at the record there. Look at Ford and the DCT 6 speed trans that caused them to lean heavily toward dropping all cars to go to SUV only, the reliability fell off enough to have thousands claim fraud in lawsuits.
 

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Here we go................


From the website that will sell you a way to reset and read the deterioration number yourself using Elm 327.

It states the number only counts up with any time the fluid is over 90C (195F) in temperature. A NORMAL running trans will routinely run at temp over that up to 220F and is still fine. The converter takes fluid up to that temp all the time.

Maybe why CVT temp is at 180F???? That fluid must be wildly delicate to decay at that low a temperature. I used to race ATX and you never wondered about the fluid until it went over 250.
 

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I too have one Ford engine with over 200K miles and one with 195K when you take the oil cap off either one of them everything is still pretty clean, just a hint of discoloration from where the oil has been running through the valve train. The valve train and inside the valve cover of the '88 I drove for so long was pretty cruddy looking but I worked construction and the car was driven on those dusty sites nearly everyday for about 22 years so I know it ingested lots of dust/dirt. I may be totally wrong on why Nissan is using the 180* thermostat but that's the best reason I can think of that they would. It's kind of surprising the government would let them import them that way since the hotter an engine runs the more efficient it is and the less pollution it puts out. I'm like you I strive to never allow my vehicles to run hot but over the years it has happened a couple times if I had a thermostat stick closed. The last time I remember having a thermostat stick closed on any of cars was in the early 80's on a '76 Chrysler 360. I noticed the temperature gauge kept creeping toward the hot mark and pulled off the side of the road and cut the car off. I was just getting ready to pop the hood and check to see what the problem was when the top radiator hose busted. Lucky for me it didn't wait another minute before busting or I'd have been covered with hot coolant. The '88 Escort ran hot one time and it was in stop and go traffic. That's when I learned the cooling fan wasn't cycling, I couldn't find the problem so I just wired it to a toggle switch and put a temperature gauge in it so I could monitor the actual temperature. I really try to stay on top of that with the second generation and third generation Escorts I have. They're well known for dropping valve seats and overheating greatly increases the likelihood of that happening.
 

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I tend to change hoses and stat around 80-100K and keep the hoses if they still seem viable for later use once the car gets old enough to not care any more because the value is already used up. Again changed new at 160-175.

When you get stats NEVER get the chain ones, stats are crap largely now and you pay extra for the best, the difference is only a couple $$. Even then you may get a bad one. I used to see bad new stats so often I couldn't count when in parts, we a couple times sent entire boxes back as bad when many of them messed up. China doesn't care.
 

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I tend to change hoses and stat around 80-100K and keep the hoses if they still seem viable for later use once the car gets old enough to not care any more because the value is already used up. Again changed new at 160-175.

When you get stats NEVER get the chain ones, stats are crap largely now and you pay extra for the best, the difference is only a couple $$. Even then you may get a bad one. I used to see bad new stats so often I couldn't count when in parts, we a couple times sent entire boxes back as bad when many of them messed up. China doesn't care.
 

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I've used Stant thermostats most of the time in the past and had good luck with them. Several years ago (probably been 20 years ago now) I bought a thermostat at Auto Zone (Duralast). I was replacing it again before long because it was opening so soon the engine never got up to temperature in the winter, therefore very little heat. It was bad enough working construction and having to work out in the cold without having to spend another 2 hours riding to and from work in a cold car.

I forgot to mention my views on motor oil. I started using 10w40 year around in my cars when I started driving in the late 70's and have never had an engine failure of any kind. Till this day I still use 10w40 year around in all my cars and since I have several more cases stock piled in the garage I'll be using it for several more years. The Versa says use 5w30 but, so did the '88 Escort. I might consider going as light as a 5w30. I don't know about these 0w20 and 0w16 weights, they just sound too light for my liking. I want something that's going to stick around and not run off like water. Last couple times they've had sales on motor oil and bought oil to replace some of what I've used I've bought 10w30 but it's use is years down the road if I live long enough to use any of it. If not I guess someone else will have to use it. Lots of people wouldn't use the oil I'm using in my cars because it's older oil that was bought in the 90's and 00's before oil got to where it cost $3-4 a quart. The oil I'm using in the Versa is Citgo Supergard and was bought at a store grand opening at 2qts./$1. I'm guessing it was bought somewhere between 2000-05. Some of the oil I'm using in the Fords was bought in the mid-late 90's.
 

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Unpolluted oil has no shelf life, shake the bottle up and throw it in.

I use 15W-40 now but one has to consider their location in cold weather, I'm in Texas. I used to use straight 30 for many years and no problems ever, it would still start in 10 degree temperature if it had to. Dry starts are a myth. The oil is the lower number in actual weight, then the additives bring it to the latter number, so when the oil wears out the lower number is the weight of the oil at the last if you push it all the way.

I use Walmart Super Tech non-synthetic and cannot kill the cars at 9K OCIs. My Versa uses a filter about 3X the normal size one though.
 

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Unpolluted oil has no shelf life, shake the bottle up and throw it in.

I use 15W-40 now but one has to consider their location in cold weather, I'm in Texas. I used to use straight 30 for many years and no problems ever, it would still start in 10 degree temperature if it had to. Dry starts are a myth. The oil is the lower number in actual weight, then the additives bring it to the latter number, so when the oil wears out the lower number is the weight of the oil at the last if you push it all the way.

I use Walmart Super Tech non-synthetic and cannot kill the cars at 9K OCIs. My Versa uses a filter about 3X the normal size one though.
I've been doing 5K oil changes in all my cars most of the time but from the look and feel of the oil I wouldn't be too concerned if I went over that by 2-2.5K occasionally.

My '02 Escort is at 195K miles. A woman hit my son in it and did more damage to it than I had in the car so I didn't bother to fix the body since it was pretty high mileage and most of the damage was scuffs and scratches to the front bumper and fiberglass related components that don't show anyway. I think it may have shifted the front end .5-1" to the right. It was a rebuilt title car when I bought it. I got it for $2000 in 2008 with 80K miles. The damage the woman did that hit my son was over $2800 so we've got 115K miles out of it and made $800. With me doing my own repairs the $800 I've made off of it probably covers all the repairs I've done to it since I bought it so basically all I have in it is gas/tires. It's just a daily driver/knock around car that I can drive places where I don't feel safe parking the better cars without them getting beat to death. I have let that one go 7.5K between changes a few times just kind of experimenting and haven't noticed any ill effects. It'll be due an oil change at 200K at that time I may start letting it go 7.5K on a regular basis and see how it does. If all goes well I'll feel better about increasing the interval on the better cars.

The '88 Escort that I put over 500K on was using quite a bit of oil for the last 100-150K or so miles I drove it. I still changed the oil in it but when it needed topping off I'd use oil that I'd drained from my better cars for topping off oil. I'm pretty sure I did this for at least 150K miles and the engine was still running when I parked it it just needed more work done to it than I wanted to fool with.

When l bought the Versa I ordered a dozen oil filters from Rock Auto the cost was $2. each including shipping. I also ordered 10 crush washers off eBay for $3.39 so a complete oil change of 3.2 qts. of oil including sales tax $1.70, filter $2.00 including shipping and crush washer $ .34 for a total of $4.04 and about 20-30 minutes of my time for an oil change.

I'm in south central KY and although we sometimes have some weather 0 to -10 it's not enough of it that I'm concerned about excessive wear from too heavy weight of oil. How did you come to the conclusion of 9K mile intervals being safe? Do you have to add any oil between changes? Did you have any oil analysis done? I figure for what is costing me to do my oil/filter changes I can probably do 60K miles worth of oil changes at 5K intervals for what a couple oil analysis would cost me and I'd probably need at least 2 or 3 analysis done on each type engine to get a good baseline on how long they could go. I've thought about increasing the interval in the Versa to 6K but hadn't because of the recommended 5K interval by Nissan and I've read that Nissan had some problems with engine sludge in the past and that's something I definitely don't want to deal with.
 

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I did 6K changes for 25 years on a long stream of cars. I don't pay for oil analysis at all, The only thing I'm concerned with is how transparent the oil still is and I check how dark it is as well, I tolerate a certain tint of brown before I determine it too dirty, the opacity figures in there too, oil you cannot see through has more solids in it than you want. You don't need analysis to tell you that.

At 9K OCI you need to check oil level at some point; you may have to add on an older engine somewhere in there. I don't go that far on a new car, only 5-6 and once the engine is known good and over couple years old I go higher.

I've got a secret little theory that when the oil companies had to dump much of the zinc out of the oil they did it knowing they had to make up for the lost zinc, which really helped wear a LOT. I think myself that they will NOT say a word about it but that they let some of the synthetic technology slip into conventional oils as well as the more expensive syn oil. It would be the easiest way to make up for lost zinc and they already have the materials in place to do it. Of course it would be death to ever let that out as the syn oils would take a hit. I have no proof other than I am sure the oils quit burning as fast as they used to and how I can now get away with going longer on the OCI. Look close at the oil at 6K miles now, it is hardly burned brown whatsoever, it used to be much darker than that. The major difference in syn and non-syn oil is how fast it carburizes, or goes from brown to darker then black. It's slower now even on conventional oils.
 

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I always check my oil on a regular basis. I was just curious whether oil consumption had increased with the longer drain interval. My '02 Escort usually lowers the oil on the dipstick about 1/2 a quart somewhere around 2.5-3.5K miles. At that point I top it back off and it's usually not back down a 1/2 quart when I change it. When I drain the oil in the Versa at 5K the color is just slightly past a dark golden color and still has a transparent look to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
  1. You guys have stumbled into your own conversations.
  2. My issue is stalling at opperating temp, my only code I've gotten recently was the crank sensor. Cleared it once i out my old one back on and its gone for now.
  3. Looked at freeze frame data my LOAD_PCT (%) reads 0.0 at idle.
  4. MAF (lb/min) reads between 0.3 at idle and 0.7 at low rpm
  5. What do you guys suggest on what to use for cleaning the ground points. Electrical cleaner?
 

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Wazz,
How many PID's can you capture on your freeze frame data at once?
I'm thinking you drive the car until is start to fail, and then manually activate the freeze frame data. This should capture the current values of the choosen pids, and then maybe that will shed some light on what's failing.

One additional question, after the car stalls or shuts-off, how quickly can you restart it?
 

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Unpolluted oil has no shelf life, shake the bottle up and throw it in.

I use 15W-40 now but one has to consider their location in cold weather, I'm in Texas. I used to use straight 30 for many years and no problems ever, it would still start in 10 degree temperature if it had to. Dry starts are a myth. The oil is the lower number in actual weight, then the additives bring it to the latter number, so when the oil wears out the lower number is the weight of the oil at the last if you push it all the way.

I use Walmart Super Tech non-synthetic and cannot kill the cars at 9K OCIs. My Versa uses a filter about 3X the normal size one though.

That Walmart Super Tech is what I use also. I read a study on oil a few years ago, I can remember which one, that ranked the Super Tech oil at the top of the list. I use the non synthetic also.
 

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If you haven't cleaned the TB then do so and changing the gasket while doing it is a must. Past that you say PCV valve is new and needed that. No mention of mileage but you need to know that low compression from wear can cause dying at idle. Car using oil is an indicator of that.

The most common warm idle die reason is an erratic vacuum leak, the fuel trims will show that by being on the + side and bigger than the normal under 10% numbers. Cold idle then warming up to die only then can be vacuum leak as well. Get car to where it is dying and read the sensor1bank1, it will often be low (below .5 volt) saying vacuum leak too.

Weak ignition is the next reason, all new coils may not do crap if the install work or connector quality is in question there. Same with plugs if the gap was not checked.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Car has to cool down before restarting.
Freeze Frame Data Pids my obd 2 scanner reads:
Dtc_cnt 0
Fuel sys1
Load_PCT (%)
Ect (F*) (dies at 161F*)
Shrtft 1 (%) (-2.3 to 0.0)(did not exceed -10.8 on any fuel trims at 3000 rpm)
Long ft 1 (0.0)
Shrt ft 11 (-1.6 to 0.0)
Long ft 12 (reads 99.2)(catalytic converter issue?)
Rpm (idles around 715)
O2S11 (0.450)
O2S12 (0.850)
Vss(mph)
Spark adv
iAT (F*)
Mass Air Flow (0.6 to 1.1)
TP(%)
 

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As far as cleaning the ground connections it depends on how dirty they are and what type dirt/corrosion. If it's rust it might very well take something such as a wire brush if it's just dirt/grime remove the screw/bolt holding the ground and clean it with a rag or steel wool with a solvent such as gas/diesel/kerosene or aerosol cleaner then coat them with something to help prevent the rust/corrosion from coming back. The reason I say take the bolt/screw out is because sometimes rust will form underneath the connection on the metal you're grounding to or the ring connector attached to the ground wire. When I clean my battery terminals/posts I either use my pocket knife to scrape the corrosion off or use a wire brush post/terminal cleaner then put a thin coat of grease or a few drops of oil on them when I replace them on the battery. I actually prefer to use oil because after awhile the grease can create an electrical barrier and can cause poor starting performance months down the road;. Motor oil will also help prevent acid build up around the battery, battery tray and connections.
 

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If the grease is non-metallic it will form no barrier over time, I've used it in spots that stayed perfect as far as resistance for years. Oil simply goes away as it has no binder in it to keep it in place. I have cable ends that last until the new battery goes dead and they could go even longer. I even rebuild my alternators protecting all connections like that too. My alts outlast anything I've ever bought.

If you have stranded wire in the ground then no cleaning on the planet will do any good as you cannot get between the strands of wire to remove corrosion. You cut the end of cable off and renew it. Or, use vinegar + salt to eat the rust off in a minute or two, rinse with water to neutralize it and then quickly blow dry to stop new rust from forming. Then grease the end up (work it well into the strands). I've rebuilt battery cable ends a hundred times doing that, they become like new if you put in proper effort. A ground pathway relies on the strands of wire touching cleanly, corrosion stops that and cleaning the outside of a stranded wire does nothing to help the connection as the buried strands still cannot touch for the rust or corrosion. The strands must touch cleanly to give full electrical contact footprint.

OP..........................your O2 sensor 2 (.850) is too high, you may have a cat issue. The fuel trims are subtracting fuel as well and may be reacting to that. You need to look further at the O2, all you have there is an averaging number, you need to watch them in action to see exactly what they are doing using real world live data to graph the action. Decent OBD scanners can do it easily.

If cat is clogged enough the engine will die, the exhaust cannot get out. If doing that at idle then the car should run like crap at higher up in gear and moving. A simple test might be to get car to dying and then unhook the cat from manifold to have a large leak before cat and see if engine dies then. Your neighbors will hate you over it.

Mileage on car? And how long has somebody driven it missing any at all, it adds up to kill the cat way ahead of time.
 

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Additionally, I use a mix of baking soda in the water to clean battery terminals and connectors. It neutralizes remains of the acid from a battery. Then wipe/dry, lube (I use a silicone grease), and tightly re-connect.
 

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Yes to all that.

'Car has to cool down before restarting.'

What does that mean? A car at 161 degrees is not hot at all.

Will the car not restart as soon as it dies?

And repost your list there but WITHOUT ANY ADDED IN THINGS you put in like the 161and catalytic question, you are blurring your list to be worthless. You have minus your confusing additions what appears to be a lot of blank stuff there, that can be a simple power interruption like loose wire killing the ECM.

You need to quit farting around and get dead sure on the grounds now, could be that.

Check your OBD readiness items like cat, evap and others, if they have not cleared to pass the ECM is shutting off.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Ok, "I guess my emissions has to deteriorate" isnt any better.. This is a very confusing matter to me. Reason i put my focus at the 161 degree mark is cause it hasnt failed to die on me there. But.. Id say like 10 minutes cool down time in this cold weather. Work full time, I apologize for the slowness of my response time. I promise every off day I got I am out there working on that thing. i would like to thank everyone for contributing to this thread.
 
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