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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So this morning i went to the car and pressed the unlock and didn't hear the click sounds of the doors unlocking so i manually opened it with the key and tried to start the car. There is no response at all, no sound cranking no power nothing. So i got my other car and gave the Versa a jump, still it didnt work but the power is back on though and there is cranking this time. So i thought it was the car battery cause it was reading 11.7 on voltage so i changed the battery and tried again. With the new battery installed the lights, radio, etc they all turn on but once i turn it to start the car it just keeps on cranking. So anyone have this problem or know what might be the problem here.

Also when my car was working i would have problems sometimes starting the car on the first turn and usually it would take a second turn for the car to start.
 

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Does it try to fire at all? Were you using one of the original keys that came with the car? It's most likely a NATS (Nissan Security) problem, i know once in a while for no reason at all (that i have cared looking into because it happens so infrequently) i will get a no start too. Usually if i get that i take the key out for at least a few seconds then try again and it works.

From my educated guess, i would imagine the NATS is just a series of modules that are tacked on to the regular body wiring/control modules meaning that if this is a common problem, the component failures are probably across the entire line. I've actually replaced a few BCM's because of either this NATS problem, but usually more often than not they have a car that seems like it's possessed as well (random unlocking/locking, power steering motor stop working, warning lights erratically on/off). It may be the receiver unit/antenna that sees the key fob or key chip signal and enables or disables ignition accordingly. Not sure if the older Nissan keys have chips in them.

Diagnosis of electrical gremlins like this should be done by a tech that can actually pinpoint the problem. All too often you get techs at dealers just throwing parts at the issue. It could be in the IPDM, BCM, or the NATS module... All will probably be expensive to replace.

The dead battery issue is likely separate and this is just coincidence. Things you need to know to diagnose that is how old was the old one (was it factory original?), were you getting any symptoms prior (alternator growling, battery light in dash, slow cranking)?

Unfortunately with modern cars, CPU's control alot of circuits and the functions those circuits perform, and when they go bad (the one in the IPDM for example) they cause all sorts of haywire behaviour, and at that point if it's been pinpointed to a module (CPU) causing the problem then there's nothing else to do but replace it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I had it towed this morning so my mechanic is checking it right now. I thought it was the key too so i tried the factory keys the car came with and still nothing. I tried all three of the keys i have for the car and still nothing. Also i think i failed to mention this before but my check engine light is on. But the code i got from it was the oxygen sensor so i dont know if that would have anything to do with it cause it been on for over a month so i dont think that was the problem.
 

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You've been driving for a month with your Check Engine light on and haven't had it checked?:surprise
If it's not causing driveability issues why bother?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You've been driving for a month with your Check Engine light on and haven't had it checked?:surprise
Yea lol :( iv been busy with work so i didnt have time to bring it to the shop till now. I checked the code to make sure it wasnt anything too serious lol only thing that popped up was the oxygen sensor so i figured i could wait a bit :|
 

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If it's not causing driveability issues why bother?
When the check engine light comes on, it means that a vehicle system, such as the ignition, fuel injection or emission control, is not operating properly, even if the vehicle appears to be running normally. A glowing check engine light doesn’t mean you have to immediately pull the car to the side of the road, but it does mean you should get the car checked out as soon as possible. Ignoring the warning light could result in costly repairs.

Forbes just ran an article that says that the most common cause of the check engine light in a Nissan is the catalytic converter.

Ignore the light; and if it turns out to be something serious - you can expect to have warranty issues. The car's computer stores the dates and time of when the light was triggered.
 

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Yea lol :( iv been busy with work so i didnt have time to bring it to the shop till now. I checked the code to make sure it wasnt anything too serious lol only thing that popped up was the oxygen sensor so i figured i could wait a bit :|
Oh... ok then... I agree. The O2 sensors are pretty common in just about any car. And should;t affect much except mileage.
 

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I'm a mechanic, you don't need to patronise me with all that.

Too many mechanics don't check wire circuitry, the stuff that's actually verifiable, before jumping to a module. Modules are always expensive. A few manufacturers haven't seem to have gotten good CPU/module/PCB suppliers, or haven't gotten engineering down right the first time. I can understand a PCM going due to heat from injector drivers etc, but not erroneously at low mileage.

You could pinpoint the parasitic load/drain on the battery yourself if you have a DVOM, hook it up on milliamps in series with positive terminals, and start pulling fuses until you find the affected circuit/group of circuits.
 

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I'm a mechanic, you don't need to patronise me with all that.......
You're completely missing the point. That being, that you should never ignore the check engine light. And explaining the above isn't patronizing any single individual. It's simply stating the facts to a larger group of "average" individuals.

K3vin indicated that he didn't; which is good (he ran the code). Even in your case; you described a whole boatload of things you would do before jumping to any conclusion.

Knowing that your a mechanic establishes a baseline of my understanding of your skills. It does not; however, change the fact most people who read this board are not mechanics.

So; as a mechanic, would you advise the average reader of this board to ignore their check engine light as long as it didn't affect what they perceived as drivability?????

Even the Forbes article indicated that most people do; and that it is not a good idea to ignore it. At the very least; it affects your gas milage - which costs you more money each and every week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Does it try to fire at all? Were you using one of the original keys that came with the car? It's most likely a NATS (Nissan Security) problem, i know once in a while for no reason at all (that i have cared looking into because it happens so infrequently) i will get a no start too. Usually if i get that i take the key out for at least a few seconds then try again and it works.

From my educated guess, i would imagine the NATS is just a series of modules that are tacked on to the regular body wiring/control modules meaning that if this is a common problem, the component failures are probably across the entire line. I've actually replaced a few BCM's because of either this NATS problem, but usually more often than not they have a car that seems like it's possessed as well (random unlocking/locking, power steering motor stop working, warning lights erratically on/off). It may be the receiver unit/antenna that sees the key fob or key chip signal and enables or disables ignition accordingly. Not sure if the older Nissan keys have chips in them.
My Mechanic ask me to bring in all my keys cause he checked everything so i think he reached the same conclusion as you, about the NATS. Is it possible that the NATS completely forgets the transponder chip codes from the keys due to the battery completely dying cause i couldn't even unlock the car before? But then again the keyless entry remote works though once i replaced the battery so idk. And anyone know what controls the over head Dome lights cause they have been acting weird they dont shut off when the doors are closed now......so i leave them completely off. is it the BCM?
 

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IPDM controls the timer for the lights shutting off. I think part of the problem is that the IPDM is in a particularly bad place where water can leak past. It's in the engine bay on the left side in front of the strut tower, right above the fender liner. Corrosion is probably a big reason why these fail and start causing haywire. The IPDM integrates one big CPU controller, and the function of individual relays in a traditional relay panel. Unfortunately it seems to be less reliable than traditional relays. At least with individual relays you can replace the problem ones, whereas the IPDM is non-serviceable. So if one circuit controller is problematic you must replace it as a unit to fix one problem.

There are certain things in a computer on cars that is stored on what i would call "hard memory", or memory that doesn't require power to sustain. Same as when you put your computer to sleep vs hibernation, sleep puts all the data required for your current state onto RAM which requires power to sustain, whereas hibernation puts it onto a hard disk or solid state drive which doesn't require any power at all to sustain. Much like the odometer data will never leave that vehicle if it loses power, the key stuff is the same. I think it's a NATS module or maybe the receiver acting erraticly that's causing intermittent locking/unlocking issues. Perhaps due to corrosion or bad connections internally, or the CPU/PCB itself.

Jim, i know it's not recommended practice to just drive around with a CEL, but if the customer knows what it is and that it is not affecting anything then it isn't a problem. An H02 sensor code CAN cause poor fuel economy, CAN... it depends on what specific code he has for it. Is it just an O2 sensor heater circuit? Is it the A/F wideband that is a direct feedback to the ECM? Or is it just the post-cat narrowband sensor that simply monitors post-cat gasses and triggers a code based on cat efficiency? Even then, a cat-efficiency (or rather de-fficiency) code is not necessarily grounds for cat replacement, often it is an incorrect A/F caused by something upstream (vacuum leak, incorrect fuel pressure at the rail, clogged injectors or sticking injector pintles). In the case of incorrect A/F, STFT (short term fuel trim) value is a very good way of determining if there's a problem in the fuel delivery or management system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
IPDM controls the timer for the lights shutting off. I think part of the problem is that the IPDM is in a particularly bad place where water can leak past. It's in the engine bay on the left side in front of the strut tower, right above the fender liner. Corrosion is probably a big reason why these fail and start causing haywire. The IPDM integrates one big CPU controller, and the function of individual relays in a traditional relay panel. Unfortunately it seems to be less reliable than traditional relays. At least with individual relays you can replace the problem ones, whereas the IPDM is non-serviceable. So if one circuit controller is problematic you must replace it as a unit to fix one problem.

There are certain things in a computer on cars that is stored on what i would call "hard memory", or memory that doesn't require power to sustain. Same as when you put your computer to sleep vs hibernation, sleep puts all the data required for your current state onto RAM which requires power to sustain, whereas hibernation puts it onto a hard disk or solid state drive which doesn't require any power at all to sustain. Much like the odometer data will never leave that vehicle if it loses power, the key stuff is the same. I think it's a NATS module or maybe the receiver acting erraticly that's causing intermittent locking/unlocking issues. Perhaps due to corrosion or bad connections internally, or the CPU/PCB itself.

Jim, i know it's not recommended practice to just drive around with a CEL, but if the customer knows what it is and that it is not affecting anything then it isn't a problem. An H02 sensor code CAN cause poor fuel economy, CAN... it depends on what specific code he has for it. Is it just an O2 sensor heater circuit? Is it the A/F wideband that is a direct feedback to the ECM? Or is it just the post-cat narrowband sensor that simply monitors post-cat gasses and triggers a code based on cat efficiency? Even then, a cat-efficiency (or rather de-fficiency) code is not necessarily grounds for cat replacement, often it is an incorrect A/F caused by something upstream (vacuum leak, incorrect fuel pressure at the rail, clogged injectors or sticking injector pintles). In the case of incorrect A/F, STFT (short term fuel trim) value is a very good way of determining if there's a problem in the fuel delivery or management system.
UPDATE

Well i left the car with the dealer on Friday and got a call from them a little later they told me that there was no signal going to the BCM and that it would cost around 850 to replace it and install new one. They told me they couldn't check what else could be wrong unless i replaced the BCM and that even if after they replaced the BCM and the car still doesnt start it would cost extra for whatever comes next lol. So right now im just hoping once its replaced that will be the end of it.
 

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Hello to everyone.
I have problem with my Versa 2007. It is second time within last 4 month.
Engine cranking, but doesn't start.
I noticed that same failure happen in same condition. Weather rainy and cold. And I went outside to relocate my car for few meters. I just start engine and quick move few meters and then stop.
After four hours I came to the car to drive and then............... my car doesn't start. Cranking, but doesn't start.
Any suggestions? Please

You can see short video how is cranking by this link: https://youtu.be/9t8tyL4B3Hs
 

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Hello to everyone.
I have problem with my Versa 2007. It is second time within last 4 month.
Engine cranking, but doesn't start.
I noticed that same failure happen in same condition. Weather rainy and cold. And I went outside to relocate my car for few meters. I just start engine and quick move few meters and then stop.
After four hours I came to the car to drive and then............... my car doesn't start. Cranking, but doesn't start.
Any suggestions? Please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t8tyL4B3Hs&feature=youtu.be

You can see short video how is cranking by this link: https://youtu.be/9t8tyL4B3Hs
Wish I had an answer for you, but it could be any number of things: Fuel filter clogged, fuel pump on the way out, bad wires, spark plugs need replacing. Not knowing what maintenance has been done on the car over the last 10 years, it would be hard to try and pin things down. If you have somebody with a code reader you could see if the vehicle is throwing a code to indicate what the problem might be. Good luck
 

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Wish I had an answer for you, but it could be any number of things: Fuel filter clogged, fuel pump on the way out, bad wires, spark plugs need replacing. Not knowing what maintenance has been done on the car over the last 10 years, it would be hard to try and pin things down. If you have somebody with a code reader you could see if the vehicle is throwing a code to indicate what the problem might be. Good luck
Thanks for Your quick reply. There is no any service code, I have checked already.
As I mentioned before it failed second time in same conditions. First time service guy fixed with 50 times starting and then finally start to work. Now again failed. Something with fuel supply I guess.
 

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Sounds like you need a jump. My versa cranks a lot faster than that. Is it a stick shift? Have you tried getting a push start? Have you had the battery checked or a charger you can put on it over night?
Today I connect my battery to another car battery and run for 50 or 60 attempts and then engine start run. Now I can stop and start again no problem with same old battery. If you read my story above it looks that in such conditions when start cold engine for very short period 15-20 sec and then stop may send for problems as I had already couple times within last 4 month. But still can't understand what I have to fix and where is actually a problem. Fuel system is for sure, but not sure where in the system? Fuel pump in tank? Fuel pressure valve in tank? or something else? Any ideas?
 

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I somewhat disagree with the thoughts on driving around with a CEL on but not checked. The engine can be slightly rich and poisoning the cat little by little and the owner thinks it's running perfect. Any cat damage there is pretty much permanent, the cat does not renew itself to be 100% again. Meaning a week or more like that can take years off of them later.

As well, if the owner disregards that light, then likely that mindset is hardlinked into other things like missing a whole lot more than that. After years of being around customers you realize pretty quick a GREAT number of them really cannot tell you what good driveability even is, the engines can be missing and they think they are running fine. BTDT hundreds of times.

How about ignore the light and in the next few minutes the engine burns to the ground because in ignoring the light the temperature gauge never looked at either. Blew a hose, temp runs gauge up, light comes on and we keep on driving, one new engine or car coming up. Can't count the times I've seen that either. Ignoring the CEL deeper ingrains that dangerous thinking. Why should I worry? The thinking then goes to oil light next, it's a light just like the other one right? Yes indeedy, it IS. Enjoy walking home tonight.

What about an engine with say variable valve timing and the CEL comes on for cam timing going off slightly and ignore light to have it go off even further and then bend valves to bring car down? Many won't catch the slight difference if any in running at first and not until close to the blowup. Too late, you had your chance............

Many codes now are HIGHLY damped to not show up at all except in only the worst of cases, it saves millions on fake warranty issues. No way do they show up at the first instance, commonly the software is now written to ignore any errant behavior until a certain time or number of bad events has passed. Meaning when the light comes on the problem may well have already been present for awhile.

That light is telling you something. It may be nothing or little to nothing but after a long stint reading CELs for people that had some of the codes telling of what ultimately proved out to be the end of a car..........well, I wouldn't do it.

But then I fix 100% of all my stuff and not an issue with me. I check for codes QUICK, then do what needs to be done if anything.

We'll see if the IPDM turns out to be unserviceable, they said the same thing about the Ford CCRMs and IRCMs and I gutted relays out of those to patch in cheap $5 relays and cars back up and running for years for pennies. Those modules cost around $250 back in the day and made out of unobtanium. I do the same ultra cheap repairs in 50 other places if not more.

I hate the whole multiple integrated unitized part thing but if anything it has made rebuilding many of the units at home for literally nothing easier than the hundreds they get now for what you commonly fix with a very cheap single part. Like alternators, I can fix them for commonly $40 and often have at way less than that, as little as 30 cents for solder or sandpaper to refresh contact points to bring a $200 alt back to life for years more.
 

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Id go to any auto parts store as they can check the code for you and that would be the best place to start.

I also notice you dont lt the engine crank that long. My second car is a honda odyssey and I use to have to crank it for 10 seconds before it start up. Now that I replaced the spark plugs it starts in 3 seconds.
 
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