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Im finding if I am in a lot of stop n go traffic and use the ac on blower speed 4 I have less power.

Yesterday my 20 miles commute with 75 mph speed limit was inhibited by 20+ red lights. I hit every single one and it was 93 degrees out and 90% humidity.

I have never hit all reds and it seemed as I approach the next one it switches quickly to red.

After an hour of this I found the versa s sedan to be a real dog to drive. I traveled another 7 miles to food lion on a blvd with a 45 mph limit and too many stop lights to count. :surprise

I found I had to wait for the engine to rev up above idle before dropping the clutch and even then unless I tried to launch it and not lifting between shifts it felt like I had the parking brake up 8 clicks.

Ive called this heat soak for the lack of a better term and wanted to see if this is me or common? My former car a 2010 honda insight was like this, but worse as when the hybrid battery was low it disabled ac til it recharged and the cvt did not engage til you hit almost 3 grand launching the car. :surprise

At least I was nice and cool the whole time and did switch blower speed from 3-4 as that seemed to help.

 

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Typical of a small engine in solid heat. The Ford Focus cars are literally horrible about the same.

Look here.......................you got an engine with very little power to begin with, maybe 120? Then heat sap it to be at 100, then a/c on and sucks up another 20 hp. and what do you have left? A 75 hp. Ford Pinto motor. You should have driven one of those in the heat..................you could walk faster.

It is indeed 'heat soak'. Small hi-hp sewing machine engines don't have the big torque to give away there that the bigger V-6 and V-8 do.

Get into the fall and like having another engine under the hood. Normal, and nobody tells you that while telling you how good the gas mileage is. (That takes a hefty dump there too)

These small engines really lose an edge once they cross 125K miles or so, you can feel it gone and that comes from normal ring seal slowly going away. The cars will last maybe another 175K miles yet but that big power at new is gone. Wait until you panic stop too to find out how much power assist is gone from the brakes due to the same wear. On like a Focus you suddenly find you have to have the Hulk's green leg to stop the car, I've bent the master cylinder pivot pin off brake pedal before trying to stop in a sudden panic stop.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the confirmation. I think we got 100 hp and 100 tq where as the last year Honda Fit has 120 or so with the same displacement. Maybe if they continued with the 1.8 vs 1.6 we may have hit that?

I do like how the power comes on as the rpms climb from idle like it does. My Insight and CRZ did not do that. I did get to drive a gen 1 insight with e-vtec and man at 2800 rpms or so when it engages the second set of intake valves it felt like someone bumped you from the rear. All 4 valves to the exhaust were always engaged.

So, what can be done to help reduce this problem? More air flow? Cooler t stat? Chemical inner cooler with a snow performance methanol injector kit?
 

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Really not a whole lot you can do, cooler air helps bunches but where to get it when the outside temps are 100+?

Here in Texas, you got the issue 1/3 of the year, you cannot deny the physics there. Here's the deal, gas engines are heat engines, they make heat to do work, you WANT the engine hot as it makes best power that way but you want the fuel and air cold. Mainly the air, since the engines are basically air pumps too, the colder the air the greater the density and the more power you get.
 

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amc49 said:
you got an engine with very little power to begin with, maybe 120?
Its only 109 horsepower and thats only when wound up at 6000 RPM, at 1500 RPM in traffic it will only be somewhere around 25 horsepower, and you have both the air conditioning compressor and the alternator chewing on that 25 horse (alternator pulling harder because you have the fan drawing max amps on high), hence you are not left with a whole lot to move the car at those low RPMs. The facts of life driving a car with a small motor.
 

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I was thinking in terms of my 1.8 and my Ford 2.0s which both do that too. The 1.8 is still low mileage so not too bad yet but it will later.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
My odyssey with the wheelchair conversion is the same way. Ive actually drive when the throttle to the floor til I get up to speed when its hot, Im idling with both acs on in traffic.

Im getting a snow performance stage 1 kit and 4 gallons of boost juice. My plan is to permanently install it on the odyssey as I consider that my hot rod and with the larger engine should see more of a gain than with the little pee shooter of the versa. Yeah, Ill try it on the versa, but it will be a temp install unless it really makes a different like a wet 25 shot of NOS.
 

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Cobb said:
Im getting a snow performance stage 1 kit and 4 gallons of boost juice












Nothing but a huge waste of money and potential damage to a naturally aspirated modern computer controlled car. Please tell me you didn't already order it :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So, a 25 shot of NOS is a better option? I know the gains in general are minimal for NA and gains for boosted is like 10-15%, but people who have heat soak say the recovered powered is AWESOME.

I think its not a bad idea even to just test it. Those snow kits seem to be in demand and used ones sell fo as much as new ones.
 

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Well of course they will say that, why do you think I have to work on drivers so much before getting around to the actual cars?

No self respecting dumb-ss is going to admit he got taken, that applies to every automotive gimmick there is on the planet.

I choked on people lying to themselves like that when I was in parts until I developed a foolproof method to get them to tell the truth............pay them for it. Then you get it all, how much they feel about being ripped off.

Most people absolutely refuse to admit they fell for a gimmick, it makes them feel stupid doing so and they cannot internally handle the truth.

You DO realize of course that true methanol is POISON, and easily absorbed into skin right?

Meth/water injection is a great way to wreck a car's engine as well. If it truly enables power that much you will be hitting injector duty times high enough to limit and then burn the engine in open loop acceleration.

I personally would not touch that gimmick.

Yours and do what you will..............................
 

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Cobb said:
So, a 25 shot of NOS is a better option?
The problem you started the thread about is reduced power and performance after getting stuck sitting in traffic for a while and heat soaking the motor.

The only thing that really helps with that is getting moving again and getting airflow though the radiator and engine bay until things come back down to normal operating temperatures.

The things you are proposing as solutions are from a whole different ballpark.

"NOS" is something you would inject for a few seconds ONLY at wide open throttle in a race. A momentary burst of that stuff does nothing to cool your motor down, it barely offsets the increase in heat that comes from the massive increase in pressure in the cylinders. Its only safe to use at wide open throttle. It can only be used for a little while at a time. None of this aligns with being stuck in traffic.

Meth/Water injection is not applicable for modern computer controlled naturally aspirated motors. On older cars, where timing was set manually, you could potentially run a bunch of advance in your timing and keep engine knock at bay with water injection BUT the safety margin was very, very small, and again we are only talking about brief wide open throttle situations. On a modern car timing is computer controlled, you can't add advance so you get nothing by adding water. Actually you get less than nothing, because the water displaces air will cause you to run rich, which the computer will try to compensate for but it won't be able to account for the water and all you will get is a screwed up AFR and further reduced performance. Still nothing that you can use stuck in traffic besides.

Both of these fringe WOT racing gimmicks are no use to you stuck in traffic whatsoever.

--------------------

One thing that maybe I would explore if I were in your shoes would be a manual switch for one or both of the radiator fans (are there two?) so that you could start pre-cooling the rad fluid when you get into stop and go traffic and *maybe* that would hold off the point of full on heat soak for a while. Adding a temp gauge to monitor that would help. Stuff like this shouldn't be necessary on a car this new though, its designed to handle the extreme ends of normal driving conditions like that as best it can.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Yeah, some call it car meth. >:D

How about one of those sprayers for the radiator?

My van has similar issues with similar driving and I ease the throttle to the floor and wait for it to get to speed. So it goes go WOT, where with the Versa I lift when I shift.

Maybe Ill revisit e15?

Yeah, once rolling Im fine, but 0-what ever its a dog.

 

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The worst situation, say a light changes and then you turn left to go over a short bridge (overpass) over a major freeway. You sat at the light too long, engine now hot and it dies like an utter dog after the turn as you have to go UP a slope and the only way to do it is to get all the way down into double passing gear to be at 80% full throttle, it's that, too much power, or not nearly enough, the car almost stops moving and just bogs.

The engine is still at the stat regulated temp., it is the OUTSIDE AIR temp going into engine that is the problem there, the problem being gone in the winter. What we get when we go for hi-hp engines because they are so small, the torque peaks are all at 4000+ rpm rather than the old school 2500-3000 rpm they used to be at. You got no torque where you need it and the heat only bombs what's left into oblivion.

On my Fords I have considered trying to bump the intake cam way up but haven't gotten around to doing one yet. They are cammed at 114 lobe center intake to rev high and make good power over 5K rpm, bringing that back down may help unless the factory PCM software gets in the way, which it very well may do. Bringing the centerline to around 106-108 should at least help that issue some but in the old days I had to ability to tailor the fuel to the change too.

I have no idea where Nissan likes to put its' lobe centers at. When you advance intake closing you lose some top end but the bottom develops more torque, you move the power band around to help at lower rpm and the increase in overlap helps that too. Won't be able to do it on the ones that have variable intake timing like my 1.8 does, as that should be an instant DTC.

Just an idea so far, no way to know unless it gets done.
 

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FYI, one should also be aware that even a slight bit too much water in water injection will create enough steam to corrode steam pits into the cylinders walls rendering the block as junk. Of course that's more you won't hear when everybody tells you how wonderful it is...................
 

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True, may mate from DSRLeasing had once his mind made up to try gimmick. Never again he said, just as you said it's the beginning of problems, but still a lot of people is trying this out which is definitely not worth imo.
 

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The sprayers are typically for a turbo intercooler, not for a radiator. There is a cooling effect from the evaporation but I don't know if it is greater than the resistance you would create to pull the air through a wet rad.

Is there room to mount another radiator fan in front and have it pull air out of the engine bay through the rad? At low speed that could work great, pull the heat out instead of in.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Oh, ok. No, I have not purchased anything. I did however find a snow performance stage 1 kit for 260$ new and 4 gallons of boost juice for 38$. I would use it on WOT with a second switch to engage it so it would not always be on.

Like I said its only got 8100 miles on the odo as of yesterday and I am still babying it. I exit my shifts at 3 grand, frequently skipping 4th going right to 5. Some times I take off in 2nd as first seems too low.

After watching a guy next to me in traffic launching his car at 3 grand I tried going WOT and shifting later. Made a good difference and boy did it sound GREAT.

So I run 1st from 2500-5 grand then shift to second at 3, exit at 5 and so on including 4th. Takes off a hell of a lot faster and harder. My average mpg read out lost 3 mpg while I was in stop light hell, but once I hit the open road I gained it right back. :smile

Wonder if they make a reverse cowl or luvered hood? I know a guy who had his radiator fan connected to blow out vs in the grill and his car over heated. Took him a while to figure it out. While he was tinkering on it and it was idling they were standing in front of the car and notice hot air blowing out from the radiator vs cool air being sucked in and blowing on the engine.

The odyssey is a hot mess and idles a lot as I use it to take my disabled mother shopping. I got a separate tranny cooler and will disconnect the one in the radiator. I got a bigger power steering cooler too and inline filters. I may just replace the radiator if not give it a good power washing. Another idea is to get an oil filter adapter to add some fittings to the oil system and add a remote oil cooler. I see our nissans use an oil to water cooler on the oil filter like VW and a few other guys use too.
 

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Even though my 2016 S 5 speed manual might be slower than a lot of other cars it sure as hell beats the pants off of my first car. I had a 1974 Vega auto and I honestly had to turn off the A/C to get on the highway. No joke. I bitch and moan about my 1-2 shifts in my Versa being annoying rough. But I'd take this Versa over that Vega any day. Lol!! The poor 1-2 shifts are really all I can gripe about with my Versa. I love the car except for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I had eyed the Mirage and that was a 3 cylinder. I had a geo metro and man its ac felt like the parking brake was clicked up 5-7 clicks when it came on. This car not so much if at all, Once you hit 3 grand the power just pours on from the "vtec' engaging and you hear this nice throaty noise from the rear.

Ive continued to use e15 and put a 1x2 ft of silver heat resistance shielding from the bottom of the plastic intake down by the alternator and starter up to the top of the engine where it tucks under the windshield cowl. I also insulated other parts of the plastic intake path the air takes and that seems to help.

I also shift later, reclutch if the engine seems to be struggling and let it rev up.
 
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