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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a 2016 Versa Note SV, while it's nice that Nissan shows exactly which tire is low on air pressure, I presume when I rotate my tires I have to keep track of which tire went where, to find out which tire is actually low on air. For example, if the original right passenger tire is low on air and I moved it back to the rear, if that sensor lights up on the dash it is really the rear passenger tire that is low.

Is there any way to reprogram the dash sensor to correct for this?

I suppose the TPS system on the Nissan is a step up for the 2013 or so Fords, where if the tire sensor light goes on, it doesn't tell you which tire it is :rolleyes5:. I found out the simplest way to deal with it is look at all the tires and see which one is sagging a bit, and that is probably the one low on air.
 

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The more complicated things are, the more we want to complicate them..........................to drive ourselves nuts.

Air the tires up the same at the rotation and don't worry about it. When you get one low you are supposed to check all the others anyway.

Another reason why I do not EVER rotate tires. Except once at a change, I never buy 4 tires at once, only two.
 

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Good question. I imagine there is a setting to rearrange them unless you inflate them all to the same psi. I have owned cars with tpms, but not one that gives a read out for each.

Me, I rotate the front passenger to the rear driver as the front wears the most and rear wears the least.

When I rotate I take my time to bleed the brakes and check things out. Adjust the drums and give them a good coat of rust proof black paint and paint the wheel wells black once I blast them off with the pressure washer.
 

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Gonna bust some more bubbles here.

The rears wear the least YET they wear the MOST, and on every single FWD car on the planet. You will not find anyone that tells you that whatsoever. Why? because of the goofy conventional wisdom and it sells 4 tire sets much faster.

The front tires almost always wear pretty evenly as the engine and trans weight is up there to weight them down flat. The rears have NO weight, even the oldschool rear axle housing is gone. What does that have to do with it? Wear tires ALL the way down like I do and then you'll find out. The rears having no weight to stabilize them and sprung then get into an oscillation at speed that makes them bounce up and down and the longer you do that the more out of round they become. It's a cycling harmonic thing started by hitting a bump and balancing tires doesn't even think about touching the issue. Rocks temporarily stuck in tread can do it too. The point being, once that oscillation set-off point is created the tire will tend to go into it more easily with time and it becomes much more exaggerated. The tire rotation to the front evens some of that out of round wear out but then you have substandard handling due to running tires up front that are out of round. If you think not then you are fooling yourself, every FWD car I've ever had did it in varying amounts but the problem is there, all you have to do is be looking for it. Now you have out of round tires up front that also now forced to tilt sideways to create ackerman and then the outside edges are getting rounded off too to make the tire even more screwed up.

All that leads to a whopping degradation of how well the fronts drive and handle over the long run. The driving directional stability coming of course mostly from the front, the rears only tag behind to fall in line like a semitrailer on a tractor. I have routinely seen tires on the back that produced no issue then screw up front tracking and wobble on the front, put them back on the back and they again shut up to make no problem. The way FWD handling largely works demands top quality tires on the front at all times, when you rotate you fault that in varying degrees. Meaning, if you have wobble issues look at the last time you rotated, could easily be that. Cock-eyed wear tires are commonly much more invisible when on the back than the front. Past a point they will be bad on the back, and putting that type on the front then will be absolutely undriveable.

Why I only buy tires in pairs, the new go on the front for a 100% restore of the handling to like a new car and the old fronts which are still pretty much in round at that time go on the back to then wear out of round. Jack those rears up and spin them, it's nothing to have a tire almost one full INCH out of round and the norm, do you want that EVER on your front???? Only an idiot would say yes. On the back the car drives just fine except for the added noise that condition makes once the out of round gets bad enough. Same tire up front and you would have been screaming for new tires 6 months ago from steering wheel shaking. Why rotating commonly has one buying the entire set of 4 faster than need be in a lot of cases. Do you think the tire company will tell you that? A greatly added benefit is that the rears will get flats at like 4X the fronts as the front tire grabbing nails to throw them at the back tire is where most flats come from. So, if you get that really bad long drywall screw that tears up the sidewall, you did NOT hurt your newer tire. Meaning you very realistically save almost a new tire every 2-3 years out of the blue if you flat like we do here in Texas, the norm here is for workers to let nails come out of the truckbeds by leaving the gates down, they do it all the time, the bast-rds. I'm already at 4-5 this year, I can't remember. Thank goodness I fix my own at around 5 minutes each now, I was forced to turn it into another valuable skillset. The tire people here once you buy the road hazard warranty make you wait commonly several HOURS just to get a free tire off the car fixed! And why I haven't paid those in 20+ years either, a waste of money if you count your time as being worth something.

I don't make the rules, I only report them the best way I know how...................yours and do what you will...............
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, after doing some Googling, I'm still not convinced rotating tires are bad, so I did mine on my Note. I do not notice any vibration issues, and car tracks straight. Only thing I might be imagining is rolling resistance isn't quite as good, but the tires need to break in at their new locations.

I kept a diagram of how I rotated them so I can track down the tire low on air if the visual alarm comes up on the dash.
 

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When I worked at Sears tire America they recommended new tires on the rear vs front as the rear tracks ad it helps you to keep control of the vehicle. Im mixed either way seems fine new on front or rear unless its a awd or 4x4. Then you need all 4 and see if there is a tire place you can sell the others to.

When I go for a rotation I also ask they check the balance. Most are in check, but usually the first rotation one or 2 is out of balance.

I like to rotate then myself so I get an excuse to bleed the brakes and paint the brake parts and wheel wells, but it is more convenient to get the dealer to do it. I get free oil changes and inspections, so its like they guilt you into doing it as it is half the price of an oil change for a noncustomer.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Rotating tires is a pain because you have to jack up all four wheels. I cheated and put the rears on jackstands and used the two floor jacks to hold up the front temporarily, since I wasn't going to be under the car and swapping wheels wouldn't take very long. I was surprised at how small the front brake rotors are, but I guess I am used to the Brembos on my Mustang.

One thing I do is use anti-seize compound on the studs, although looks like Nissan already did this. I also put a thin coat of anti-seize (I use the copper high-temp version) on the surface of the front rotors and rear drums, where the wheel contacts it, as you could see the rust building up already. On high mileage cars, sometimes the wheels are frozen to the rotors/drums due to rust and corrosion.

One issue I had is where to place the jackstands. On the rear, I tried going forward of the pinchweld lift point because it was integral to the uniframe but it was too far forward. I ended up using a welded plate inboard of the pinchweld and aft of the lift point. I was leery of using this because it looked to be welded to the uniframe and the rear axle was bolted to this piece so if it got bent from the weight of the car, might affect the alignment. But it seemed to be a sturdy piece solidly connected to the uniframe. On the front, the only feasible point would be fore of the lift point, inboard of the pinchweld, which has a large 'breastbone' structure.

One thing I learned on my Mustang is that with modern cars, you must jack up from or near the pinchweld lift points on each side of the car, so you need two jacks. No more jacking up from the rear differential or center of the car frame up front.
 

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Rotating tires is a pain because you have to jack up all four wheels.
If you swap front and rear wheels without crossing, you can do one side at a time, with two jacks. Or if you want to be more aggressive, you could use two scissor jacks for front wheels, and a floor jack under the center section of the rear axle.

One thing I do is use anti-seize compound on the studs, although looks like Nissan already did this.
Old school was to smear some grease on the studs.
 

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Buy only a pair of tires and change either the front or back in comparison like I have more than once to come up with my logic, if you can't tell the difference you need a whack to the head, the difference is STRIKING. There is no comparison in the driving quality. BTDT and for years. You will get like 10X better directional stability with the new ones up front. In fact it's like a front end rebuild and align in effect often, why I NEVER have to align my cars, new tires up front and it's done.

Yes, if you do 4X4 you need all 4 tires at once, they will give you enough fits as it is when parts start wearing out. 4 wheels out of alignment and all 4 powered will be the scariest vehicle to drive you will ever encounter.

The only real effect rears will have if they are more worn is in the winter on ice, they then will show skittish handling and worse at cornering, the back end then comes loose way too easy because wear issues had the two sides of rear fighting with each other to not lay down solid traction. That issue barely shows and usually invisible in rain as you still have enough car weight to bear through most of the water to get better bite. The rear camber issues most FWD show with age adds greatly to that same problem and new tires won't touch that.

If you jack enough times about 80% of the time the OEM pinchweld jacking points will collapse after so many jackings, the sheetmetal there is too thin. I jack in the middle of my FWD cars all day long, there is a bolt on subframe that is like triple wall thickness there on many cars now. I'm talking way higher than tire change jacking though, to do maintenance under the cars. You are lifting more weight doing that.
 

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Has anyone confirmed that the TPMS are related to a given wheel such that they show in the wrong location when rotated?

My son came home the other day and said the TPMS said the passenger front was low on air.
He's not the most mechanical kid but added air to the tire and the display did not change.

I went to check it and found 45 PSI....bless his heart......and indeed the monitor still showed the passenger side front was low.
I found however that the passenger rear was low.
After dropping the front back to spec, pumping the rear back to spec and driving the car a bit (this stumped me, other cars I have don't have to be driven) the monitor went out.

I have to assume the tires got rotated during one of the services, dont remember.
 

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This is all new to me. I thought nissan had a system that blinked the lamps and honked the horn when you are filling your tires and they reach the proper air psi?

My honda was a generic one with no specific tire location. It only worked once you went 25 mph or faster. If the computer was bad or a tire sensor you got a TPMS error vs low tire. I had 2 sensors go dead right after the 36k mile warranty was up and replaced them with a set from the junkyard. :surprise
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Has anyone confirmed that the TPMS are related to a given wheel such that they show in the wrong location when rotated?

My son came home the other day and said the TPMS said the passenger front was low on air.
He's not the most mechanical kid but added air to the tire and the display did not change.

I went to check it and found 45 PSI....bless his heart......and indeed the monitor still showed the passenger side front was low.
I found however that the passenger rear was low.
After dropping the front back to spec, pumping the rear back to spec and driving the car a bit (this stumped me, other cars I have don't have to be driven) the monitor went out.

I have to assume the tires got rotated during one of the services, dont remember.
On the Fords (the one I own and the one at work), the TPMS is a 'dumb' sensor; it won't tell you which tire is low. However both cars are 2013 or so and maybe Ford has moved on to the same system as the Nissan. When I picked up my 2016 Note, the front passenger side tire was low and on the dash, there was a little picture which showed all four tires, and the one blinking was low on air. I am pretty sure the sensor inside the tire was providing the signal, so if you move that tire to the left rear, it will still show the front right as low, since the dash app was programmed that way. That's why I was asking if you could reconfigure the app in the dash to reflect changes. Still, I don't know this for sure . . .

For it to update on it's own, there would have to be another sensor at each wheel, taking a signal from the tire. Then the app takes info from that sensor and not the tire.

I might add I am really impressed with the stock Bridgestone Ecopia tires, both from a rolling resistance standpoint and ability to hold air (considering they are Chinese tires). All four of my tires only drop maybe 2 psi in two months so I rarely have to add air. Toyo tires on the car I had in Japan also held air well, but those were made in Japan.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If you jack enough times about 80% of the time the OEM pinchweld jacking points will collapse after so many jackings, the sheetmetal there is too thin. I jack in the middle of my FWD cars all day long, there is a bolt on subframe that is like triple wall thickness there on many cars now. I'm talking way higher than tire change jacking though, to do maintenance under the cars. You are lifting more weight doing that.
Not with the modern cars with the unibody frame. Yeah, on my ole '86 5.0 liter Mustang, I'd lift off the differential housing and the breastbone at the front of the car all the time. But particularly on a heavy car like the 2013 Mustang (3600 lbs) it is critical to lift off the four factory pinchweld points similar to the Nissan. You don't have to lift off the end of the pinchweld (which is two sheetmetal panels spotwelded together and is about 1/8" thick); I notice the pads on the stock Nissan jack clears the 3/4" high pinchweld and actually lifts off the frame on each side. On the Mustang, the stock jack actually lifts off the end of the pinchweld, but I use aftermarket jackpads customized to the car that have a plastic center section where the end of the pinchweld can dig in on, so the pad lifts mostly off the frame on each side of the pinchweld.

It's a common topic on all the Mustang forums, and if you lift from the differential at the rear, the axles get stressed and may leak oil, and if you jack up at a central point under the car up front, that breastbone is bolted on to the frame and you risk bending that and throwing the front wheels out of alignment. Besides, the Mustang has such a long hood (it's to accommodate bolting on centrifugal superchargers behind the radiator), that it's hard to reach that far under the frame anyway, and you'd need a real low profile jack.

One thing neat about the 2000 Honda Accord I had is the pinchwelds were superthick, about 3/8" thick, and you could jack up from the end of those. On top of that, the Accord had factory authorized central lift points on the frame at the front and rear where you could jack up the car.
 

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'Not with the modern cars with the unibody frame.'

Absolutely untrue. Jack them up and open the door, the door opening is warped. Most of the jack points are paper thin (LOOK!) and all the Fords I have after '00 are caved in. The '11 Nissan is beginning to. The 'breastbone' on the Foci I have is like 5 sections thick and it doesn't give whatsoever. Why I started jacking there.

3/8" thick is a good jacking point, the 1/8" is a joke and folds almost right off the bat.

Unibody 'strength' is a joke and requires all 4 wheels on the ground to even have a semblance of being straight and solid and why it so totally sucks when you race the cars. The bodies then move all over the map. About the only thing with any real strength is the box around engine/trans on a FWD if you have one of those.
 
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